Free Liberal

Coordinating towards higher values

Sleight of Hand?

by Robert Capozzi

Adam Baney continues our conversation on war and peace. He uses arguments we've heard before, so let's address the counters:

You write as if this country is somehow autonomous, and not affected by world events. It's not that we need to act as the world's police force, but being visible on the world's stage can play an overwhelming role in deterrence.

No, the US is most certainly NOT "autonomous." It's a highly interdependent world, including for the US. War interrupts the free flow of trade, people and ideas. Contributing to the war footing, I suggest, makes our interdependence and global prosperity worse, not better. Being "visible" is, IMO, a squishy concept. Coca Cola and McDonald's hold high the US banner far better than troops in a place like Germany, which is a massive drain on the US taxpayer and I believe history shows empire-like efforts increase the likelihood of war rather than decreasing it.

Had we stopped Hitler in a pre-emptive strike, history may have read that invading Germany was wrong.

Baney points out that there are no crystal balls. My goodness, do I ever agree. Had the US not turned back the ships carrying Jews deported by Hitler from Germany, perhaps the Holocaust could have been averted. Had the US not provoked the Japanese with oil embargos, perhaps war with Japan could have been averted. Had the US not joined in the European theater of WWII, perhaps Stalin and Hitler would have exhausted themselves. Had that happened, perhaps the millions slaughtered by Stalin and Mao could have been averted, a far more murderous Holocausts than Hitler's. Does Baney seriously suggest that the US should have intervened in a border squabble over Czechoslavakia? On what basis? The question has to come down to more fundamental principles, as I see it. Nation's -- even when well meaning -- should avoid the temptation to butt into other nations's business. Perhaps that should be somewhat elastic, but more often than not, intervention leads to unintended consequences that are far worse to human life and happiness.

If anything, Pearl Harbor and 9/11 both occurred while we sat back and kept our nose out of world affairs.

Sorry, false on both counts. The US embargoed oil to Japan. And the US has a long history of interceding in the affairs of the Middle East. 9/11 is a straw man, in this case, anyway. No nation was involved. It was -- conspiracy theories aside -- a small network of radicals, bent on disrupting our way of life. How can that have possibly been anticipated or stopped?

Whether you like it or not the world's problem's are also our own, and the "stick to our own business" idea is a garbage approach, riddled with flaws.

The definition of insanity is repeating something and expecting different results. Repeating Vietnam is sheer lunacy. That is what does not work, not the Iraq War, IMO. And, increasingly, the voters' opinion.

-Robert Capozzi


« GOPfellas | Main | Left-Libertarians and workers of the world unite! »

Comments

It seems you rely heavily on shaky facts and blanket statements to prove your points. Example: Bob from D.C. is a liberal, therefore all people from D.C are liberals...well...bad example, but you get my point.

Unfortunately, Coke and McDonald's have had little success in defending the country, at least as far as my research has taken me. Regardless of how you feel about the on-going war in Iraq, it does serve as a warning to those who remain defiant, despite international condemnation. I refuse to believe that Gaddafi just gave up his weapons ambitions. The Iraq war may not have been the sole factor in forcing his hand, but it played a huge role.

There is no question that the U.S. should do everything in it's power to avoid world conflict...but, at the same time, not run from responsibility. Your examples of potential intervention are lofty stretches at best. The tragic story of the S.S. St. Louis in 1939 had no effect on the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 which signaled the beginning of the end for many Jewish people. If your argument is, the successful escape of these people could have been the catalyst for more people to escape...your speculating...something "free liberals" should avoid in case of potential conflict.

Japan was on the war path before the embargo. Japan was a defeated country when the attacked us. Japan thought by bombing us, we would realize they were serious, and bow to their requests...they were wrong.

What piece of evidence leads you to believe that either Stalin or Hitler would have stopped at the opposing country. Our involvement in WW2 effectively stopped a communist superpower from forming. That superpower would have killed millions more than any number complied by Stalin or Mao.

The balance must be taken into consideration. We will not survive as a country if we do not defend our allies, and deter those who wish to harm us. The counterpoint being...we must choose our battles wisely. There is no question that mistakes have, and will be made. The ability to make those mistakes must never be taken off the table. War is a tragedy...but remains a necessary evil.

# posted at by abaney18 [TypeKey Profile Page]