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Barr/Paul ticket still in the cards?!

by James Plummer

The selection of Wayne Root as the Libertarian Party's vice-presidential candidate is in some sense a fluke. It appears so many old LP hands, upset at Bob Barr's win, walked out of the proceedings that Ruwart's endorsed VP candidate Steve Kubby lost, even though Root's VP total was noticeably lower than Barr's final tally. Had the walk-outs stayed, a "unity ticket" was in their grasp.

Now, the gossip is that many of these same disgruntled Ruwart supporters, who control their state LP's ballot line and elector candidates, are considering not running the Barr/Root ticket. Some LP elector nominees have even already declared their intent to vote faithlessly. This is not unheard of in the LP. In 2000, the LP of Arizona placed L. Neil Smith on the Presidential ballot instead of Harry Browne. The LP's one electoral vote in 1972 came from a faithless Nixon elector.

But these "walk-outs" have a chance instead to create an even better "unity ticket" ticket while not irreparably fracturing the national party. These "rogue" state parties could dump Root and place Ron Paul on the ballot as Vice-President. Root, widely distrusted as a warmonger by the old hands in the LP, just dissed Paul a month ago for Paul's lack of militarism.

Paul need not accept these rogue endorsements of course, while he continues to campaign for the GOP nomination. Root would continue to campaign and do media as the official nominee. But this move would put Paul back on the table, even if only as a spectre, and could help propel the nominee Barr up in the polls and into the debates. It would also in a very real way put Paul's name back into the mix as a possible compromise candidate chosen by a faithless electoral college and/or the U.S. House. The LP would de facto have two Presidential candidates on the ballot.

Both the DNC and RNC conventions look to be trainwrecks this year and all the rules are being thrown out the window. Unhappy state LP heads should keep that in mind and think carefully, strategically, and outside the box in the event they do feel honor-bound to offer a rebuke of some sort.


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Comments

Curious and curiouser....

Maybe you have something there!

# posted at by Helen

This all seems very unlikely. I don't think the LP ticket will win electors this year in any event.

Instead of being beneficial for Barr's poll numbers, it seems more likely that having state delegations put forward different candidates will just lead to confusion and further division. I don't see how having two "de facto" candidates on the ballot can possibly be good for either Barr or Paul.

And I agree with Orvetti that this is a pretty unlikely outcome. If more radical state delegations like Arizona or Massachusetts put an alternate ticket on the ballot, it would not have Bob Barr in the top spot.

As a Republican, I am overjoyed that Ron Paul has not sought the LP nomination.

While he cannot win the GOP nomination, or affect party internals in any significant way for at least a decade, he sure could have put a spanner in the works if he ran on the LP ticket.

Perhaps he knows that all he would have done is to elect Barack Obama, and he knows that would be worse for the Republic than a McCain Presidency.

He has, I think, decided on the wiser path of building a movement that may actually go somewhere in twenty years or so.

It's too bad the LP never took that approach, and worked on building their local party presence instead of devoting so much effort to "Hail Mary Passes" at the Presidency.

Agreed that that R and D conventions will likely be trainwrecks. 3rd parties need some patience, for 08 is likely a building year, not a winning year.

If the LP (and Green) parties can establish that the R and D duopoly is too corrupt to be salvaged AND that 3rd parties are viable and credible, watch for a crack up in the majors, and voters choosin sides in '10 and '12. Odds are long, but it's more possible than ever.

Barr/Paul is interesting.

# posted at by Robert Capozzi

The Libertarian Party is no longer a choice for true supporters of Ron Paul. They realize it is not about the party, but the message and the integrity and principles of the messenger.

The Libertarian Party has sold out and allowed itself to be infiltrated by electing former CIA-members and War-mongers solely for name recognition.

Barr is no friend of Ron Paul's, although he'd like people to think otherwise. About a month ago, Barr had a paid ad on the Ron Paul Daily forum that said "Ron Paul Supporters -- Sad that Ron Paul is no longer running?" with a link to Barr's Website -- spreading the disinformation that Ron Paul had dropped out of the race and was no longer an option.

On Barr's own website, he is currently recruiting Libertarians to help him "run for President" by volunteering to "Talk to Ron Paul Supporters" -- attempting to siphon as many votes and supporters away from Ron Paul as he can (he's not succeeding).

Ron Paul has said he will not be endorsing Bob Barr. He is well aware of Bob Barr's shady and suspicious past as a former CIA member, supporter of the Patriot Act and pro-War on Drugs, as are we.

The only choices we have are resurrecting the Republican Party and building the Constitution Party. The Libertarian Party is dead to us. RIP

# posted at by blakmira

Ron Paul has said he will not be endorsing Bob Barr.

um... actually he "supports" and "encourages" Barr (and Baldwin) put apparently won't endorse either one of them (or anyone else, probably)...

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126429.html

I saw Ron Paul on Wednesday, at a signing event for The Revolution, and he told me he won't endorse Baldwin or Barr. He'll kinda-sorta endorse both. He won't stop them from using photos of him or talking about his campaign.

"Chuck was in my office today to say hello," Paul said. "but I haven't said anything about supporting either one of them. I support both of them in what they're doing, and I encourage them, but that's all."

Meanwhile, the idea of a Barr/Paul ticket is unproductive delusional dreaming. Support the GOP, LP, or CP as you please, but unless we all keep a firm grasp on reality, the rEVOLution isn't going to go anywhere...

# posted at by svf

On Barr's own website, he is currently recruiting Libertarians to help him "run for President" by volunteering to "Talk to Ron Paul Supporters" -- attempting to siphon as many votes and supporters away from Ron Paul as he can (he's not succeeding).

I see no such thing anywhere on Barr's website...

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

Why are you worried about Barr "siphoning" votes away from Ron Paul when his run for the GOP nomination is effectively OVER?

Why must you take an "us vs. them" approach...? Shouldn't we be working together to advance these ideas forward -- via Paul, Barr, Baldwin, everyone possible?

# posted at by svf

The Unity ticket is already in place, and it's called Barr/Root.

Bob Barr is Pro-Life.

Wayne Root is Pro-Choice.

What more unity do you need than that?

Many possible Republicans who would be supportive of Barr/Root would be completely turned off if Paul was on the ballot instead of Root in a couple States. That would be disastorous. We can sell Barr/Root cause they're both relatively mainstream.

Paul is viewed as a kook out of the mainstream, by most if not all Republicans these days. And if he were added somehow, which won't happen anyway, but if he were, it would be a major turn-off to a huge amount of voters, who will back Barr/Root.

If there was a Barr/Paul ticket, which there won't be, but assuming there was one, you'd have a walk-out on the other side of the libertarian spectrum.

There are tons of mainstream libertarians, far many more than radical fringe libertarians.

The mainstream libertarians would be totally turned off to Ron Paul.

Are you all aware that Wayne Root received 90% of the delegate votes from New Jersey and New York?

For all this clammoring about poor ole' Mary Ruwart, Root finished behind her by only 20 some votes.

You don't think the Wayne Root people would be super pissed off at such a move?

You don't think they'd threaten to walk out of the LP if Root were somehow dumped for Ron Paul? Which ain't gonna happen anyway.

I cant seem to find the Official Barr Root Web site. They are running on the libertarian ticket right? Could someone out there help me out. Im thinking about voting for the libertarian ticket this year, but I cant fing the Barr/Root site to learn more about the candidates. Ive been to
www.BarrRoot.com www.BarrRoot08.com and www.BarrRoot2008.com
None of these websites are up and running yet? Someone told me that the libertarians Campaign mainly online? But I cant figure out why I cant find a campaign site. If anyone knows Please let me know. Thanks.

# posted at by charles

I'm starting to get irked about all the indignation over Barr's past sins against libertarian principles. Do we want people to change their minds or not...?

Do you understand that if you ever wish substantive change of any kind, people are going to have to change their minds...?

Persoanlly, I have changed my mind about a good many things over time -- and allow all people the same privilege.

Would I prefer to vote for Ron Paul this November? Absolutely. Will he be on the ballot...? No, barring an unseen miracle of enormous magnitude. Will I write in Ron Paul...? No, because it would not be counted as a vote for Ron Paul, just as a spoiled ballot. Who will I vote for then...? Bob Barr.

# posted at by Carol

What the...? A Barr/Paul ticket was never in the cards.

The Libertarians have never amounted to a hill of beans. Now they have joined the Republicans and Democrats in nominating state-worshiping opportunists with connections and name-recognition.

The only hope is to develop the Ron Paul wing of the Republican Party.

Has anyone listened to Mr. Root. The guy is a joke and full of himself. I would say he should be a used car salesman, but I don't want to offend the good people of that profession.

# posted at by Chad

"It appears so many old LP hands, upset at Bob Barr's win, walked out of the proceedings that Ruwart's endorsed VP candidate Steve Kubby lost"

That presumes that the "walkouts" were in protest or disgust at the result, and therefore would have voted Kubby for VP.

For so many prior conventions, the VP portion of the ticket has almost been an afterthought, with no presidential candidates dropping down into the VP race.

In fact it was only two days prior, were the rules changed to allow a failed presidential candidate to enter into the VP race without going through a separate petitioning process for both spots on the ticket.

Since many people showed up only for the Presidential nomination, they may not have known about it.

Also, the VP slot has traditionally been a Bermuda Triangle, where LP candidates are never heard from again.

So, many of the "walkouts" could have been supporters of either candidate.

Even more dramatic was the drop off between Sunday and Monday when party officers were elected.

Yet the radicals were there in force enough to elect Mary Ruwart and a few other radicals to the LNC, and a very radically tilted Judicial committee.

This suggests that "walkouts" weren't as much a problem due to ideology, as much as a scheduling problem for delegates.

Indeed there were Barr supporters who voted Kubby for VP. I was one of them.

"The mainstream libertarians would be totally turned off to Ron Paul."

Where do you get that from? For what he's been able to do this past year, Ron's gotten respect throughout the LP, from radical and practical members alike. At least from what I've heard.

Any objections would be more of a "why didn't you turn to us earlier" slant, that he had the chance to join the race for the LP ticket long ago and passed it up.

Nobody could just place Ron Paul's name on the ballot as VP unless they decided to forge his signature on the official paperwork. And they could go to jail for that, not to mention it probably wouldn't work.

# posted at by Richard Schwarz

Blakmira, a Baldwin/Paul ticket might be a clever idea for some states also. Go for it.

# posted at by JPlummer

I'm really growing tired of all the futzing around by the LP. Are they Libertarians or not? One cannot be a Libertarian and propose (or even accept) interventionism (as Root does, it seems to me). I'm not sure where Barr is on the war issue of interventionism, but from what I've read to date he is ambiguous (or dissembling) about it.

The LP has to prove it is a party of ideas and sound philosophy, unlike the Kool-Aid drinking RP and DP. It serves no useful purpose if all the LP stands for is to acquire a mass of votes, if such mass is not centered on some type of ideological platform. To date, I've taken numerous surveys from the LP and found them to be lacking in the "hard edge" that should be required for a party of dissent.

If the LP is dissenting from something important, then it ought to promote guerrilla warfare campaign tactics to achieve it. Acquiescence is not an option; otherwise, the purpose of a third party is lost.

Really, I don't care if the ideas are impractical (which is a common and pathetic excuse to water-down the message), because, if these ideas are sound, then in time a way will be found to implement them. If the LP is simply gaming the system to draw in as many votes as possible, then they've lost their way.

Quite frankly, I've had enough of the prevailing Idiotocracy and the frat-boy mentality of both mainstream parties. If the third party LP is not up to the task, then I'll be looking for a fourth or fifth party, numbers be damned.

# posted at by Scott Harmon

No one really cares about VPs.

The GOP brand name is badly broken. If the LP shows some electoral party discipline and stands fast behind Bob Barr, also running QUALIFIED congressional candidates in every district (doctors, lawyers, not radicals), it may pick up a state or two in the electoral college, plus enough house seats to force GOP incumbants to vote for Barr for President to prevent Obama from winning.

Failure to seize this opportunity (which will not fall its way again) will make the LP a historical joke. The GOP brand is dying. Seize the day or die with it.